Reasonably Ascertainable Reality

Thoughts and musings on current events and other random occurrences.

Location: South Jersey, United States

Friday, October 28, 2005

The Indictments are Out

And Scooter Libby has resigned after being indicted on five counts. I said before that I would be somewhat disappointed if this investigation only turned up crimes of 'making false statements', even though I do recognize the seriousness of the crimes committed.

Over at TPM, Josh notes a paragraph in the indictment that could have very far reaching consequences considering the investigation isn't over:

On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson’s wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA.

Josh notes that the Counterproliferation Division (CPD) is a division of the CIA's Directoate of Operations, not the Direcorate of Intelligence. Why is this important? Because 'analysts' come from Intelligence and 'spies', for lack of a better term, come from Operations. Josh concludes that because both Cheney and Libby are long time national security men, this fact was certainly not lost on them. Take from that what you will.

Over at Environmental Republican, Scott notes that he doesn't remember people getting this excited when someone else lied under oath (3 guesses who). I agree, and note the hypocrisy. However, as I said in the comments, the cases are apples and oranges.

Clinton perjured himself during a sexual harrassment case. Not to downplay the important of sexual harrassment, but its importance lies somewhere beneath the ant I stepped on outside when compared to WMD's, the US intelligence community and potential outing of undercover agents. He points out the Clinton was an elected official and that Libby isn't, and that Libby resigned. However, if politicians should resign EVERY time they lied, we'd be left with no politicians.

Its up to the American people to decide the consequence of the lie. To the dismay of many on the right, the American people were NOT behind Clinton's impeachment and did not want him to resign. That is just a fact. Whether Libby is on the radar of the American public remains to be seen. But I think this investigation will go somewhere further, I just don't know where.


Blogger scott said...

As I said at my site, Libby did not out a spy, he lied about his conversations with reporters--huge difference.

Lying under oath is a crime and therefore Libby should be punished.

The basis of American law is that those under oath must tell the truth or sufer consequences. Whether it's Libby, Lil' Kim or Bill Clinton, the crime is the same.

The comparing apples to oranges is a falsehood because the crime that Clinton and Libby committed was the exact same, only the issue was different. The Clinton only lied about sex deal is a sham.

8:53 PM  
Blogger Katinula said...

You are argueing a point I never made. I never said Libby outed a spy. I said Libby perjured himself during the investigation of the possible outing of a spy. If he is proven guilty, that is what he did. Yes, its the same crime, however the Senate aquitted Clinton of the crime. He faced consequences (loss of law license, etc). Maybe not the consequences you wanted. But the American people didn't want that and either the Senators chose to side with them or they didn't see the evidence necessary for impeachment. Libby doesn't fall under this set of circumstances, so instead of Congress deciding his fate, a jury will. Either way, I was never making the arguement that it wasn't important that Clinton lied about sex. My opinion on that is irrelevant to this case. The facts are the facts. Read my post closer and see that I never argued those things.

10:31 PM  
Blogger Dave Justus said...

The Senate of course did not aquit Clinton of Perjury. Impeachment is not a criminal trial. The Senate refused to impeach him for perjury which is entirely different.

Clinton worked out a plea deal that involved loss of his license in exchange for avoiding trial. He could not have been criminally tried while he was President, but he could have been afterwords.

The deal with the Plame thing isn't that she was a 'spy' or worked for the CIA in and of itself. The point with Plame is that she was a NOC (non-official cover.) There are of course a whole bunch of people in the Directorate of Operations who are not NOCs and whose identity is in fact well known. Indeed, working at Langley, which Plame was at the time, being 'secret' would be less common than not. I don't know for sure if Cheney or Libby knew she was a NOC, but it is certainly plausible that they did not, or that Cheney did but Libby didn't.

11:06 AM  

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